In looking over Swimming With Sharks, I came across this video of Sea Shepard ramming a Japanese whaling ship. Appalled is the best word I can think of to describe my reaction. I am no whale hugger (Give me invertebrates or give me death!) but of course those big charismatic megafauna are worthy of conservation. I definitely don’t approve of Japanese “scientific whaling”. I support strong measures and conservation NGO’s.
However, there is so many things wrong with Sea Shepard’s actions I don’t know where to start.
- Ramming another vessel is against every maritime code and general sense of decency I can think of.
- For a captain to put both his own vessel and crew at risk but another as well, intentionally, is beyond forgiveness.
- To conduct such an act that serves absolutely no function other than showboating or putting on a good show for television crews is cheap
- To waste donation money for boat repair, given the three points above, is unethical and betrays the confidence of donors.
- For a certain media company who owns this channel to be involved in such stunts, when the purported mission of said group is supposedly education, is hypocritical among many other not so nice terms.
Swimming with sharks has several posts that articulate these and other reasons why you should never support Sea Shepard. Instead donate to an organization that actually gets results.
Wow – that whole thing is a crazy story (including the various blog posts I followed from here). I must admit that I was completely ignorant about the whole thing. I had never even heard of the “reality” show. Now I’m glad I never watched it.
I personally think that ecoterrorism of any sort is counterproductive. Perhaps I’m naive, but as the husband of a psychologist (i.e. hearing about psych research all the time), I generally believe that the only way to change anything is through education and positive reinforcement (incentives) – especially when it comes to conservation. Negative reinforcement certainly has a role (laws, etc.), but incentives are always needed to keep people from breaking those laws; e.g. things like debt for nature swaps, Ecotourism, etc.
As someone uneducated on whaling in general, I’m curious – what are the “positive” incentivisation programs being used to halt illegal whaling? Or are their any?
Paul Watson is a pirate. He doesn’t care about conservation, he doesn’t care about whales. He just wants to sail around in his brigantine drunk with rum and power causing havok.
Any captain that would willfully ram his vessel into another, endangering the lives of his crews, the other crew, and any rescuers who would have to respond to such a disaster, should be stripped of rank and hung from the yardarm.
He’s hijacked a cause and used it to support his own absurd lifestyle. Imagine an environmentalist and you will see everything Paul Watson is not.
So you are appalled are you? Appalled?
How appalled would you be if you were to actually witness first hand , a whale being shot and killed with harpoons, guns anbd high voltage electricity over a good half hour, watching the blood gush forth into the water before the dead bosy is hauled up a ramp to be turned into sushi?
Any reasonably sane person would find that appalling….not a few scrapes of paint off a boat… and which is why Sea sheperd…who are the only organisatin on the planet willing to go down to the Southern Ocean to defend the whales from these arrogant illegal mafiaso poachers.
whales do not belong to Japan and they are being slaughtered for no good reason inside a whale sanctuary.
That is what I find appalling.
Australians were appalled when in 1942 Japan was interested in poaching Australia from Australians. Back then Australia said no thank you, I am not taking this anymore. The end result was two atomic bombs, dropped by our allies the Americans, on Nagasaki and Heroshima ( even then the japanese didnt give up for a while longer).
Obviously “education and positive reinforcement (incentives) ” didnt work back then and judging by the fact that Japan continues to increase its whale killing quoatas each year shows that this sort of wishy washy psuuedo diplomacy just doesnt work. Direct action , ala Paul Watson and Sea Sheperd, is the way to go and has my full support.
That’s crazy.
I am completely, in every way possible, against whaling. I don’t even mind the general methods of following around the boats, scaring whales away from them, etc to screw with their catch. But outright attacks? That’s not right. They’ve crossed the line. You can’t just ram other boats!
One hs to be careful in life not to be taken for a ride and for a fool. Japan is counting on both and judging by this article and some of the responses, Japan must be well pleased.
What part of ” whale sanctuary” do people not understand??
I honestly dont know why people love to chirp up & voice an opinion when the whalers get a small taste of their own medicine but little is said or done by the same people to actually stop what is going on down in the Antartic whale sanctuary.
All of this mess is caused by Japans blatent disregard for life and the law.
In most first world legal systems, if you disregard life and the law then you may well get sent to jail or even go to the electric chair.
I dont see this situation as any different.
Japan needs to be taught a lesson. Dont enter Australian and international whale sanctuaries and poach /kill whales for profit because if you do there will be consequences.
This isn’t the first time – Throw “can opener” and “Oriental Bluebird” into Google. A couple years back, they mounted a hull-ripping spike to the side of their ship and tried to ram (and rip open) the hull of the Oriental Bluebird, the FUEL TANKER of the group. What kind of environmentalist considers creating an Exxon Valdez disaster in the Antarctic Circle!? I don’t refer to this clown as “Captain” Watson; do a little quick searching around the web, and you’ll find that it is a self-appointed title.
Don’t worry – Interpol will eventually catch up with him. The police have already seized Animal Planet’s footage this week. It seems that attempting to disable propellers with mooring lines in an iceberg zone is somewhat illegal….
The whalers are in violation of IWC regulation 19. (a) The IWC regulations in the Schedule to the Convention forbid the use of factory ships to process any protected stock: 19. (a) It is forbidden to use a factory ship or a land station for the purpose of treating any whales which are classified as Protection Stocks in paragraph 10. Paragraph (c) provides a definition of Protection Stocks and states that Protection Stocks are listed in the Tables of the Schedule. Table 1 lists all the baleen whales, including minke, fin and humpback whales and states that all of them are Protection Stocks so as the IUCN list.
Japan has ignored these as well as the prior 30+ Resolutions while continuing the JARPA programs, significantly weakening the ICRW and undermining the IWC’s indefinite moratorium on commercial whaling.
Japan targets fin whales and threatens to target humpback whales.
These are endangered species and thus this is a violation of the CITES.
The Japanese whaling ships are not allowed to utilize Australian and New Zealand ports because of the recognition and condemnation by these two nations of Japan’s unlawful whaling operations.
Among above mentioned illegal acts Japanese whalers documented while throwing projectiles at Sea Shepherd crewmembers, hitting crewmembers with high powered water hoses, deploying fouling lines to damage ship’s propeller, using an acoustic weapon device against Sea Shepherd crewmembers and its helicopter while it was in the air.
Article 101 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea: “Piracy consists of . . . any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or private aircraft and directed: (i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft.
Whalers can and should be taken to court for piracy.
The Australian Senate passes a motion which was supported by a majority of the Australian Senate, condemning violence by the Japanese whaling.
Lastly Sea Shepherd is not a protest organization;
Sea Shepherd uses innovative direct-action tactics to investigate, document, and take action when necessary to expose and confront illegal activities on the high seas.
International Laws and Charters Sea Shepherd campaigns are guided by the United Nations World Charter for Nature. Sections 21-24 of the Charter provides authority to individuals to act on behalf of and enforce international conservation laws.
Sea Shepherd adheres to the utilization of non-violent principles in the course of all actions and has taken a standard against violence in the protection of the oceans.
From the Crew’s blog about the incident:
“The helicopter crew then filmed the killing of a great whale by one of the harpoon ships (the whalers refer to harpoon ships as sampling vessels). From the time the ‘sample’ was hit by the exploding harpoon to the final release of its last gasp – it had taken nearly 30 minutes for the beautiful creature to die. Our resolve is unbreakable; the whalers will land no more whales while we are here to protect them.
Eventually the whalers sensed a gap in our blockade. The Yushin 2 moved to block us and the Yushin 1 went forward, dragging its murdered cargo on the port side. The Captain had no room to avoid a collision – a firm contact with the Yushin Maru No. 1 is made.
I was outside on the bridge wing when this happened. I was only feet away from the deranged whalers who had added to the incident with LRAD use, water cannons and were throwing missiles of all types directly at us – metal pieces, ice chunks, golf balls, even taps (faucets)! Our anchor box took the impact of the collision and there was little damage to either ship.”
1) Swimming with sharks is just an anti-sea shepherd thug. My opinion only, but I have found his posts to be very petty myself. Constructive critisism is helpful. Constructive being the operative word.
2) Japan is increasing the quota she assigns herself. It can’t get any worse. Minke are in drastic decline, down to 339,000 which sounds large but is a very real worry.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2480
http://www.iucnredlist.org/documents/attach/2480_v1223422179.pdf
Why the decline? People have suggested the facts the krill has crashed by 80% and there is no solution to the brucell/worm/shipstrike/bycatch/sunburn and loss of sea ice (for krill to feed on) all problems that will continue negatively effect Minke in the future. Japanese whaling, targeting as it does mostly pregnant females % wise is NOT HELPING! Every minke or fin that sea shepherd saves counts.
3) Sea Shepherd is the ONLY group actually taking action against Japans ILLEGAL whaling. Japanese whaling was found illegal in the Australian Federal courts and Sea Shepherd is enforcing that ruling. Australia can lawfully stop whaling within its Antarctic EEZ! http://www.envlaw.com.au/whale24.pdf Sea Shepherd also upholds the UN charter on wildlife. Stop Sea Shepherd and you strip every human on the planet of some of their power, some of their very duty to protect our common heritage.
4) Sea Shepherd has a TINY donation/funding base. They get results on a shoe string budget and they have for decades.
If you want to support direct action to stop whalers ~ Sea Shepherd has open books.
If you want to support change amongst Japanese consumers ~ Green Peace has been auditted and found clean.
If you want to support legal action to stop whalers ~ HSI is well respected and ambitious.
SS Budget: $2 519 883
GP Budget: $10 747 083
WWF Budget: $162 536 877
all US$
5) Ever wonder what cetacean (whale and dolphin) scientists think about Japans “scientific research”?
http://www.baleinesendirect.net/pdf/Whaling_as_Science-Clapham.pdf
Support scientists who oppose Japans reliance on lethal sampling!
Japans whaling is out of control, if its not stopped by sea shepherd… then who?
these guys?
http://www.high-seas.org/
There has been decades for the world to evolve an alternative to Sea Shepherd to carry out the very real role it currently does. Until the day arrives that one is put into action I will continue to donate to Sea Shepherd. Great people and I support them 100%
Don’t worry – Interpol will eventually catch up with him. The police have already seized Animal Planet’s footage this week. It seems that attempting to disable propellers with mooring lines in an iceberg zone is somewhat illegal….
And blasting whales with harpoons in violation of international law isnt???
The Japanese are frightened of this footage getting out. They know that if Animal Planet goes on for a second series then their ILLEGAL whaling operation may well be blasted out of the water for good.
wanted…people to blog their support and approval for Japanese vrested interests. Must have own computer and be prepared to say anything to cover up the illegalities and moral wrong doings of the japanese Akusa mafioso operations within designated sanctuaries. Qualities we are looking for include a personal hatred of Paul Watson and anyone who has crewed on board a Sea Sheperd vessel.
Please apply submissions to
Gleninwoodthefirst,
Traitor Street
New Zealand
Mouthpiece for illegal japanese whaling interests and commited anti-seasheperd activist.
“Swimming with sharks is just an anti-sea shepherd thug”
No Sir,
That’s so easy and simplistic a comeback. “Just a thug”. Dumbing down the conversation and redirecting away from the issue is classic SSCS.
I am an eco donor and ex SSCS advocate who does not like to see my money wasted. Your org has had 31 years to effect change. Nothing has changed. Think about that.
Anyone who has gone after grant money or donor money understands that every single dime counts – except for SSCS who willfully spends donor millions on lawsuits, fines, and lost vessels like the Farley Mowat.
For what? Where are we going here? What is the plan except another failed Wagging the Conservation Dog media event and one more year of dead whales, dead seals and dead sharks.
31 years. Surely there has to be another game plan. What did not work in 1970’s still does not work today. Paul Watson is the last person standing to realize this.
If Watson was not playing this next to useless Save-The-Whales gig – he would be one of those creepy guys with the 70’s shirt collars and gold chains swinging his corpulent hips to ABBA’s “Take a Chance on Me.”
We can do better. We need to do better.
And please leave the whale kill side show out of this. We all know it is happening, we are all disgusted by it. The difference is we also know eco fraud when we see it and after 31 years you sir, should too.
I whole heartedly agree with everything you say.
This sort of action besides contravening the very notion of seamanship will only harden the attitudes of the pro-whaling community.
I also believe that this sort of action will also help fuel the growing unease among donors over the amount of money being wasted by the growing plethora of NGOs.
Mike.
*And please leave the whale kill side show out of this.*
Thats what Sea Sheperd is for.
I don’t know if all the Sea Shepherd advocates here understand what makes the rest of us recoil from supporting them. Dr. M said it pretty clearly in the post (which one REALLY should read before posting a comment) The video in the original post clearly shows the Sea Shepherd vessel TURN INTO the Japanese whaling ship. So the incident in the video is not the incident described in comment 9. Or if it is, the crewmember has a very, erm, shall we say, creative recollection of the event.
I am against industrialized whaling, and Japan’s “research” cover makes me angry as well (1600 whales sampled per paper), and makes me sympathetic to the Sea Shepherd cause, but as with the others here…
Sea Shepherd categorically loses my support because they have shown an unchanging willingness, even zeal to directly and intentionally engage in actions that endanger other ships at sea.
The part that really bothers me the most here is the general tone of the arguments. To criticize the methods of a conservation NGO is not to criticize the cause itself. Nobody said anything here about being pro-Japanese whaling or anti-whale conservation. If you are a regular reader here you realize we decidedly neither. We are criticizing the methods of Sea Shepard in general as both ineffective and even worse counterproductive. We are also decidedly against the specific actions here, the risking a donor supported vessel and the lives of her crew to ram another vessel in the high seas.
If you want to debate the actual incident here or the validity of these types of methods, then your comments will be generally welcome. However, personal attacks will not be allowed and will be moderated. Additionally, I think we can safely assume everyone here is generally pro-whale conservation, so let’s not waste time arguing whether the Japanese Whaling is bad or not. It is.
I AGREE Sea Shepherd is MAKING THINGS WORSE FOR THE JAPANESE WHALERS and is GREAT!!
Gotta hand it to them! Sea Shepherd is awesome. And all the Sea Shepherd crew and supporters are like great Patriots. Same tactics the good ol’ USA did in the spirit of the Boston Tea party!
Sea Shepherd gets my honor and respect! I’m impressed with SeaShepherd. Where are they and where can I sign up!!
Whale meat is contaminated with Methyl Mercuric compounds. Eating whale meat causes neurological damage, stunted intelligence, lowered IQ, liver and organ damage. Japanese whalers are enticing people to eat it. By the tonne. Therefore, Japanese whalers are conducting mass-poisoning of thousands of people, including their own Japanese citizens. That is a real act of terrorism, the mass-poisoning of thousands and thousands of people, by those harvesting whale meat and bringing it back to Tokyo and enticing thousands of persons to ingest it.
Making matters worse, would be anyone who sat around thinking what Japanese whalers are doing is no big deal, and doing nothing, or just ‘wishing’ for ‘strong measures’ to happen while they dream at night, or even worse, would be anyone who published little pittance gripes and whines about denting ships, instead of wholly and forcefully throwing All support behind this organization Sea Shepherd who is actually out there and saving thousands of lives. Not only is Sea Shepherd saving whales lives, they are saving 90% of the Japanese population against an illegal band of 1% of Japanese criminals, and they are saving Japanese childrens lives, and also saving Americans lives by the thousands.
Yes, Japanese whalers have also begun smuggling the whale meat into the United States. The contaminated whale meat has been found in sushi bars in the united states. Sometimes mis-labeled as other types of meat or sashimi. So Japanese whalers are poisoning Americans as well.
Japanese whalers attempted to push whale meat into the Japanese school system. They wanted to feed it to Japanese school children in their school lunches. If ingested, contaminated whale meat causes organ damage, reduction in cognitive capacity, abnormal brain tissue development. And children born to those who have ingested the contaminated products are born with Birth Defects. Hundreds and hundreds of children were born with disfiguring birth defects as a result of mercuric and heavy metal contaminated meat.
So the question is not whether to sit around, wheedling and whining about hulls of ships, the question is, where can I throw my entire support behind Sea Shepherd and donate to them so that they can do this, and even more.
Sea Shepherd gets my vote as a hero to thousands, maybe even millions of lives.
This article of “Filed by: Dr. M” is has mislead info and wrong premise in items.
You try up top say “To conduct such an act that serves absolutely no function”
ok this is wrong. this function specificaly serves function of block japanese whaler ship nisshin maru and harpoon vessel from take more whale, and sea shepherd stop process of additional death. by block cargo offload transport of whale from harpoon vessel to processor. this has accomplish this feat and no more could the whaler cause death. also, this is stated purpose of mission, put stop to it, and this event accomplish exactly that. sea shepherd have mission accomplish. this has stop the processing, and it has engage the criminal whaling vessels in attention such if whaler must attend this disturbance and distraction then this criminal cannot continue process of to kill further. effect is proven. and purpose is good.
Also more false premise:
“putting on a good show for television crew” false. This statement show that Mr. M writer is not knowledgeable on this. This like Mr M say something like Lance Armstrong went in some small bicycle race and oh, he just won that only because showboat cause camera crew is there. Not realize Lance Armstrong is 1 of biggest champion 5 time tour de france and has accomplished this and greater feats before and 1 of most amazing athlete ever. it just make Mr. M look like not know subject.
Sea Shepherd has accomplish this many time. this is not new. and this is not anything for only tv show here, the sea shepherd faced russian military navy vessels! and sunk criminal spanish ships while empty and uninhabited 0 onboard in dock. sea shepherd has been involve in ram in this same place 2 years. and been victim of ram, and all of this. and the reason you donto know is because no tv camera around at all. this is only in your mislead numbered statements above you invent this tv only gag. however many mistake and incomplete or false premise in this articles statement up top to this article by Mr M. Therefore this article blog is rejected.
Japanese people are not like shame of horrible whaler bring to Japanese flag and people. Nobody want eat bad whales meat this why yakuza in whale vessel sailors control company and try to smuggle not eaten million tons of whale meat sit in Japan freezers to USA and like this instead.
Sea Shepherd is friend of japanese people. Make worse only for criminal! Sea Shepherd make better for good men, women, child of japan, make better for whale, and make proud any sailor on sea to fight and stand up to giant criminal killing ships!
Dr. S. Liebnitz, Ph. D.
Your OT post was enlightening and I have not read of many of those allegations. As a PhD you must be familiar with citing your sources.
In the interests of this OT discussion thread would you please source and cite these following quotes which seem to me to be more SSCS hysterical talking points than real fact:
1.Yes, Japanese whalers have also begun smuggling the whale meat into the United States. The contaminated whale meat has been found in sushi bars in the united states. Sometimes mis-labeled as other types of meat or sashimi. So Japanese whalers are poisoning Americans as well.
2. “Hundreds and hundreds” of children were born with disfiguring birth defects as a result of mercuric and heavy metal contaminated (whale)meat.
3. Therefore, Japanese whalers are “conducting mass-poisoning of thousands of people”, including their own Japanese citizens.
Your OT post was so interesting I took a moment to look you up on Google. The response I got was the following.Perhaps in your haste to post to this thread you transposed those two letters on your own last name?
Google
Did you mean: Dr. S. Leibniz, Ph. D.
I am a captain of a vessel, and I applaud the efforts of the Sea Shepherds!
>>“To waste donation money for boat repair, given the three points above, is unethical and betrays the confidence of donors.“
Hardly a waste! I donate to SeaShepherd.org already, and not only am I *happy* to have my dollars go to ship repair I am thinking now, that I might even make my donation *contingent* that they do it!
This is not a betrayal of donors confidence, this is a fulfillment of pride in the fact that I’ve donated to someone that is actuall doing something great and I cheer for all they do precisely to thwart these despicable whale killers. This is not a surprise to anyone, this is the whole *reason* people donate to them! I’m overjoyed that if I donate to them that it will go to that, and not have my money frittered away in some ‘study’ or paper-pushing. These guys in sea shepherd get my mone because they rock!
And, I will remind you. NO ONE has ever been seriously hurt, nor killed, by sea shepherd. Ever. In their entire more than 30+ year history of operations!
On the other hand, what you fail to mention above, maybe because you don’t know it, is that the JAPANESE whalers actions have actually CAUSED HUMAN DEATH.
That’s right. It’s the Sea Shepherd who has a clean maritime record, and it is the Japanese whalers who have a record of maritime negligence, japanese whaler maritime incompetence, and reckless ness that has actually killed a man.
The Japanese through maritime ineptitude set their *own* ship on fire! (previously, in the antarctic, not this year). In another episode, the Japanese accidentally set off explosives on their own ship. Unlike Sea Shepherd ships which are Un-Armed, the Japanese vessels carry explosives, and they accidentally set some off and killed one of their own Japanese citizens.
In another instance, the Japanese whaling fleet crippled one of their own vessels. It began to list. And it threatened to spill and leak thousands of gallos of fuel into New Zealand’s territorial waters, tainting a huge area of pristine antarctic ocean. New Zealand’s prime minister refused the japanese whaling fleet entry into new zealand port. The Japanese whalers are barred from entering Australian port. And recently the Japanese damaged their own vessel again, by steering through a bunch of icebergs, and then they had to limp 1 of their vessels 3 thousand miles to indonesia because all the other countries (that not only allow Sea Shepherd in, by the way, but welcome Sea Shepherd as heroes!) have barred the japanese fleet from entering, and then Indonesia booted the Japanese whaling ship out. They had damaged their own prop!
That was previously, and this year the Japanese lost a man overboard! So the Japanese are not only responsible for killing tens of thousands of whales illegally, and endangering more, the japanese are responsible for multiple loss of human life. And mind you, these they all did themselves. Sea Shepherd was no where near them when they did it.
So it is the Japanese whalers that are exemplary of maritime incompetence, negligence at sea, improper training by the japanese whalers, and the japanese endanger lives. Not only endanger, unlike sea shepherd, the japanese whalers actions have lead to actual human Death!
The protocol of an emotional ideological response to rational criticism:
Us: Something something BAD
Them: What?! You ANTI-GOOD!!
Us: No. Like GOOD Very Much. Dislike BAD. BAD stupid.
Them: GOOD-HATER! Pawn of the MAN. *Garbled screaming. *Aneurysm.
I’m looking at you, Gleninwoodthesecond. No one here is blogging support for Japanese whaling.
I just all sounds so familiar…”unpatriotic” Iraq war opponents…Evil animal-hating medical researchers…etc.
There rigt! (the one that doctor lieb-whatever that said whale meat can contain poisons) I found this…
–
‘The concentrations of pollutants in whales and dolphins is not only sufficient to demand an immediately end to their consumption by humans and thus their killing in the first place, it is also an indication of the ever increasing pollution of the oceans. It is a tragic irony that the arguement that we not kill dolphins and whales includes the fact that we have contaminated the seas to such an extent that these creatures are dangerous to eat. ‘
“Studies leading to these conclusions have been conducted both by international teams of scientists and by Japanese scientists. A leading scientist at the Health Sciences University of Hokkaido believes the concentrations of pollutants delivered in dolphin meat can “be enough to cause acute mercury poisoning” and that the products should be taken off the shelves immediately”.
These findings were reported to the most recent meeting of the International Whaling Commission . The report stated “(Japanese) consumers are unwittingly consuming highly contaminated and potentially dangerous cetacean (whale and dolphin) products.”
In some cases the levels of mercury are 1,600 times the allowed quantities in meat for human consumption. The consumption of mercury in the quantities that exist in whale and dolphin meat can impair immune response and cause neurological damage leading to loss of coordination, vision, hearing and can produce mental retardation, especially in the young.”
Dr. Endo, Health Sciences University of Hokkaido, Japan.
–
and it said the not only whales but they also mention dolphins in there too and the stuff is in the baleen ones now and everything. Its like the same warning you prob heard about like for fish but the difference is in these it apparently builds up so its like a whopping doese of it in whale meat. wow, 1,600 times the health limit! that can’t be good. so much for japan’s tech edge if there kids or people eat that.
Yes, the japanese whalers are the eco-terrorists. Correct. good call.
For example the whalers carry guns. Sea shepherd is un-armed.
Japanese whalers are harbouring explosives. Sea shepherd has none.
Japanese whalers have military sound weapons aboard. Sea shepherd does not.
Japanese whalers are killers by definition. They are already down there for the purpose of destroying and killing in the first place.
Sea shepherd is down there to protect the ecology and environment and even has vegan meals which harm no animals and save lives.
Japanese have drums of caustic acids and corrosive dangerous non-degradable chemicals aboard, and chemicals to treat the whale meat and flensing and so forth. Sea shepherd merely has stinky butter (which that Glenn Inwood guy mentioned above will love to call butyric acid ‘acid!’) but it is bio-degradable, and is actually sold sometimes in health food stores and you can eat it. a person drinking a soda pop would be called a carbonic acid terrorist by japanese whalers. Not all acids hurt anything and for that matter, some are quite nice, acetylsalycilic acid is aspirin, pantothenic acid is a vitamin! But japanese whalers would print omg, activists got us with… essential fatty acid! (that’s omega3’s by the way, it would actualy improve your health).
So anyway, in response to the post above, yes, the Japanese whalers are the eco-terrorists. that much is sure. they are the ones who are terrorizing the environment, carrying weapons, japanese are the ones carrying explosives, and they are the ones there for the purpose of killing and have killed. They also nearly caused en ecological disaster with a diesel leak down there of huge proportions. And rinsing chemicals and biological waste out the flensing troughs in their ship into the oceans. Eco-terrorist pretty much sums up the Japanese whalers. Plus, looks to me like SSCS was trying to veer to avoid the ship. Steering a large ship is like trying to turn a blimp. you cant do it on a dime, and also the sea pushes you, like wind on a blimp. And also this is the antarctic sea! waves, currents, all much more huge and magnified than what most sailors know.
I say they were steering to avoid. If not, I don’t even have a problem with that either. Good! It’s all they have. Plus if the Japanese hadn’t been the ones doing things wrong, then they wouldn’t be trying to hide the film footage of the Japanese being caught.
It’s Sea shepherd who wants everything out in the open and wants it to be shown. That’s not the behavior of the person who did it, the one who is trying to seize the video and keep you from seeing it like the Japanese whalers are doing is the one who is usually the culprit.
I say good. If ramming was the only thing those armed eco-terrorist Japanese whalers got off with, then they got off easy.
Sea Shepherds methods are to be admired, definitely!
Love Sea Shepherd’s methods! In fact, that’s the best part about them!
I’m a donor to Sea Shepherd, and I have not only no problem with my money going to a donor supported vessel, I am pleased with it!
In fact, that is why I donated money to them in the 1st place! In fact, if they promised to bang into that Japanese terrorist fleet even more than this little bump, I’d give them even more! And recall that Sea Shepherd has never hurt any person, but the whalers have killed people. And in contrast to whalers, these are just mechanical husks of material steel objects bumping. And these material objects bumping, are nothing, NOTHING, compared to the thousands of lives of actual beings, whales, destroyed be the whalers. Sea Shepherd has not hurt people, nor animals. The whalers have.
And I’m not only happy with Sea Shepherds methods, I think they are Wonderful! And I’m glad to pay to fix up their hull so that they can bang into them again, if that’s what it takes. Again, these are only material objects, the Japanese Whalers are the ones there illegally in the first place, and are there killing. The Japanese have caused the death of animal lives and human lives.
Sea Shepherd has not caused serious harm to anyone, ever, and that combined with their methods are absolutely brilliant! I cheer when I see that vid. :) When I see it, I say, It’s about time! And I am happy my donation goes to them.
Irradiatus sayeth:
“Us: Something something BAD
Them: What?! You ANTI-GOOD!!
Us: No. Like GOOD Very Much. Dislike BAD. BAD stupid.
Them: GOOD-HATER! Pawn of the MAN. *Garbled screaming. *Aneurysm.”
LMAO Keerthump. Damn I’ve fallen…ROTFLMAO
But so true. Of course for some reason I’m reading it with the delivery of Eddie Izzard which just makes it freaking hilarious.
Given Whale conservation GOOD
Given and irrelevant Whale and other marine mammals have extreme concentrations of mercury compounds in the blubber and high to extreme levels in meat. So don’t eat it.
Under Consideration Is the tactic of intentional ship collision by Sea Shepherd legal? Fiscally Responsible? Justified?
I would seriously like to hear a well thought out rational argument that it is legal, responsible and justified.
Under Consideration Is the tactic of intentional ship collision by Sea Shepherd legal? Fiscally Responsible? Justified?
I would seriously like to hear a well thought out rational argument that it is legal, responsible and justified.
****************************************************************
Has anyone here seen WILDEST POLICE VIDEOS?
You have some dudes high on the speed of a hotted up car doing 120 driving along a highway creating havoc for those who surround them ( analogy= Japanese Whalers)
Policeman comes along in his cop car and pulls up alongside at 100KM (a= Sea Sheperd)
Police give a signal that they want the culprit to stop what he is doing right now and pull over.( sirens and lights) Culprits refuse point blank to heed the call. Culprits give cops the finger ( Japanese vote buying ala IWC/ propoganda)
Cop car steps on the gas and nudges the dudes car, making it spin out of control. Car spins then rolls. Dudes are ejected from their seats.
One dude has a gun. Pulls the gun out and starts shooting wildly ( remember the Japanese and their hand grenades last year?)
Cops surround dude and take cover. Demand last standing dude put down his weapons NOW. Dude starts firing madly.
Policemen shoot dead last remaining dude.
@Gleninwoodthesecond
That was neither coherent, well thought out, rational, or relevant.
You keep arguing that the Japanese Whalers are the ecoterrorists, and the whalers this, and the whalers that.
WE GET IT. WE ARE NOT IN SUPPORT OF THE WHALERS. WE ARE AGAINST WHALING.
No one here that I’ve seen is making any argument for whalers or the whaling industry or Japan.
But it’s clear that you cannot fathom what an actual debate entails.
You cannot argue for the correctness of your own actions (or those you support) by arguing that the other side is worse. You cannot say “Sea Shepard’s actions are good, because whalers are bad terrorists.” It’s simply irrational.
If you think that you can, you need to do a little reading on logic and reasoning.
If you believe that you have a sound, rational reason for believing Sea Shepard’s actions are correct, then make your case and back it up with something other than a rant.
I have a sneaking suspicion Aqua Man, Lisa K, Dr. S. Lie-ei-bnitz, Ph. D and Gleninwoodthesecond might be the same person. They all have the same SSCS talking points and he/she is little interested in this thread aside from spewing those points out.
My point is this.The video that started this thread is self evident. SSCS rams the whaler and yet here’s “Lisa K’s” take on the same video.
“Plus, looks to me like SSCS was trying to veer to avoid the ship. Steering a large ship is like trying to turn a blimp. you cant do it on a dime, and also the sea pushes you, like wind on a blimp. And also this is the antarctic sea! waves, currents, all much more huge and magnified than what most sailors know.I say they were steering to avoid”.
Where do you go from there with people who see only what they want to see?
SSCS is trapped in a radicalized negative Möbius loop. Failure, repeat, failure, repeat and I see no end to it as long as the radicals control the direction.They literally see what they want to and nothing more.
Throwing good money after bad results will not help them come back to the center where they can start being effective.
OK I’ll make it simple for ya, oh radiant one.
We may find it hard to connect with what is going on beyond our shores especially when those shores are far away in a dangerous environment that most of us have never seen.
After much consideration and thought i decided to the best way to tackle your points of interest and discussing the Sea Sheperd / Japanese whaler collision incident with something that is more familiar to most of us that has similar overtones of good guy/ bad guy as well as bringing in the idea of a collision and wether or not it is legal, responsible and justified.
Apon reflection, one can definatly draw comparisons between both sets of circumstances whilst reflectiong on the legalities, responsibilities and justifications involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15txt1eKIY
please feel free to see this on u tube above.
Pleae, let us pause a moment before I go any further in explaining further my intentions with the above ” rant”. Please allow me to make it clear that any collisions between two ships or two cars may not always be legal or responsible. For instance, two ships colliding in a busy harbour due to negligance may bring about harsh penalties. A collision between two cars on a public highway may well bring about death and injury to any parties concerned and any such collisions..wether due to equipement failure, lack of concentration due to stress, age related cognitive difficlties or other physical disablities, lack of knowledge or going beyond the limits of safe driving conditions ( eg speeding) may well bring about harsh penalties also.
In my analogy of the police chase taking out the bad guy with well planned attack manouvres, i would assume most of us would take it for granted that in our land-lubber society , if you are caught breaking the law, then sometimes it is necessary to take you out with physical foce. By providing the above example ( see video) I am showing how we as a society accept that sometimes measures are taken ( by the arm of the law) to bring to a close a dangerous situation.
I am showing that under certainssets of consitions and circumstances, collisions are “legal, responsible and justified”.
Having got this far with my explanation, we now arrive at the point where we have to ask …are Sea Sheperds tactics “legal, responsible and justified”?
Considering that the Japanese Whalers are whaling commercially for profit inside a designated whale sanctuary and violating all manner of treaties i would say that the japanese whalers are indeed acting illegally. Are they being responsible? No. They are causing great pain and distress to esentially harmless sentient beings and in short, like th ecriminal driver of the car in the video, they have been caught stealing and poaching. Is this justified? To the restaurant owners of Japans sushi bars then it may well be justified. However the IWC themselves are saying that the ” scientifuc research” banner that they are operating under is a sham and completly uneccesary.
Back to Sea Sheperd ( the good guys/cops).
In my analogy SS are the arm of the law and are armed under the United Nations worldwide charter for nature (read legal). They have caught the poachers and have given them a chance to stop.
Responsible? As they have never harmed anyone I think i can safely say yes to that one. Have they brought attention to what the poachers are doing in the southern ocean to OUR whales? Yes to that one. Is their moral compass heading true north? Considering that they spend money and time saving the whales for the whales sake then yes they are being responsible as well as being responsible to future generations ( not only to their own current generation).
As Paul watson once said…they may not beenjoyed today but they will make great ancestors.
Like the police car taking out the speeding dude, we now can ask wether their use of force is justified.
In my analogy it is completly acceptable in society to stop lawbreakers for contnuing their illegal actions by ” taking them out”.
Therefore my arguement is that Sea Sheperds actions…given the example above… could only be seen as justified and nothing else.
I hope that this clears up the issue for you iradiatus.
WE GET IT. WE ARE NOT IN SUPPORT OF THE WHALERS. WE ARE AGAINST WHALING.
So what are you doing about it?
What am I doing about it?
#1 – Educate.
I do it in the classroom.
I do it online.
Is it enough? Most assuredly not.
I could go much deeper into my activity as a scientist, my support of science and conservation, my writing to politicians to increase funding for both, and to increase overall science literacy and interest, etc. But, I won’t – I don’t really need to defend myself to you. I was unaware that my own contribution was even pertinent to this debate. (I only answer to avoid “what!? no answer?”)
Sea Shepherd and their base of donators is tiny compared to Greenpeace, PETA, and other high profile activist groups. Their antics make them an easy target for more more “reasonable” and “level-headed” types like us. However, their antics are not really directed at us, who are generally quite familiar with the issue of criminal Japanese Whaling. Their antics are directed at keeping the issue as public as possible. If that means creating a media circus…so be it.
As it has been said over an over here and everywhere–there is absolutely no argument, The Japanese Whaling Fleet is the real eco-terrorist here. They are in an internationally recognized Whale Sanctuary, killing Whales. Everyone knows that their “science” excuse is a sham. Yet no foreign government or Interpol is going to risk spending the money and creating diplomatic hassles in order to enforce the law and arrest the law-breakers. So, at the very least, someone needs to show up and shine a spotlight on the crime.
At the risk of forcing a metaphor:
If there was a gang the routinely killed cats and dogs in your neighborhood and the cops didn’t give a crap and then one day you get sick of it and you kick one of the gangmembers in the balls does that make you the criminal? Yes. Shame on you? Not really.
Do any of you actually think Captain Paul’s arrogance and even his endangerment of his crew will make anyone take the side of the Japanese Whaling Fleet? Really?
Oh, and one more thing. I know a lot of you seem to be maritime safety nuts. I personally know a few old time commercial fishermen…and let me tell you. These guys would do shit at sea to one another and rival fleets that Sea Shepherd would never do. Fouling a ship’s propeller with line? That really is child’s play.
I think the user Irradiatus provides a perfect example. An example of what many people are sick of as far as either doing little, or doing the same old same old, being ineffective, and all talk and no action. And Irradiatus provides a prime instance of exactly what many people are unimpressed with, and want to avoid. In contrast, the Sea Shepherd group which actually went out and saved actual lives of whales, stood up to them, didn’t just sit “online”, but actually did something, is what many people are desiring now. Sea Shepherd got results. And they succeeded in saving actual whales. Thousands of them. And that is what many people like.
Sea Shepherd (and their members and supporters) already do all of those things mentioned mentioned by the Irradiatus user but do more, Sea Shepherd educates, gives talks, works with teachers, scientists, lawmakers, politicians, reaches people online, SSCS works with law enforcement, works with the military, Sea Shepherd has US Federal Agents on staff, sea shepherd raises media awareness, and Sea Shepherd has not only gotten everyone talking about it, but has gotten the topic to be the subject of an entire tv series, they got entire countries to ban the Japanese from docking, and enforced laws, and have contributed to getting legislation passed, worked with officials, environment ministers of entire nations (some of which even went on to join Sea Shepherd staff after that, the Australian Environment minister is now onboard Sea Shepherd!) and as for the illegal whalers, Sea Shepherd actually had the cojones to get out there and stand up to them. This is what many people want.
As to their methods, Sea Shepherd is effective. And not only covers everything that other user does, but succeeds many times more, even setting back the Japanese illegal whaling corporation and putting them in the hole, costing them millions of dollars in losses. Quite effective. Not only challenged them using vessels, but routed them financially.
So this is a perfect example! Thanks for posting that. Sea Shepherd members see that SSCS is effective, and many people are tired of exactly the type of things that the user Irradiatus posted as being insufficient, not enough, and ineffective.
Effective and Direct Action accomplished by Sea Shepherd is exactly the reason many people desire to support Sea Shepherd and really enjoy becoming donors.
Iradiautus….nice patronisation there…your quest seems to be a noble one and your intentions are to be admired.
However as a teacher i assume that you know all about cause and effect. You may well be teaching 24/7 and you may be online also discussing whaling with others ( as I am ).
however all these efforts are by and large fairly usless when it comes to stopping the school yard bully. You admit that your efforts are by and large, innefective to stop the whaling right now.
Sea Sheperd is down there doing what politicians and Greenpeace refuse to do.
In 1942 Australia didn’t negotiate with the Japanese. Neither did America.
In 20 years time, we can spend millions on negotiations and pay the politicians big bucks to tell us more and more lies ( see Peter Garret) and they will still be killing our whales.
I want something done right now. I want the killing stopped now ( not in 5, 10, 15 years time) Sea Sheperd is the most effective organisation of its type in the world. They get int he way, save lives and cost the japanese money. Thats all any of us can ask for.
Your efforts seem to be on a par with years and years of negotiations at IWC meeings witht he Japanese, who counter every effort to stop their commercial whaling with vote buying and lies. They abuse their position just as they did when they were found out telling lies to those responsible for southern blue fin tuna quotas.
The commenter above that brought up the Boston Tea Party actually said it all.
In regards to methods, Sea Shepherd is essentially honoring the same tradition, and using essentially similar methods.
There was a group of protesters, tired of a certain ships, operated by an unfair company supported by a foreign government, entering their waters, and trying to pull a fast one skirting the rules.
The small band of protestes went and ruined that ships cargo, they staged a boarding, they agitated, they assaulted the ships, they destroyed their products, they struck at night, they dumped 90 thousand pounds of merchandise into the ocean, they cost them what (today) would be around 1 million dollars, broke open casks and crates, rendering their products useless, and hurt them financially as well as boarding their ship.
This is known as the Boston Tea Party, and this then ignited the spark that lead to what we now know as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION, and resulted in the formation UNITED STATES of AMERICA!
Lord North, and the East India tea company who operated the vessels, and others from the sidelines supporting Britain reacted and whinged in similar fasion to this, and decried it and even tried to pass the “Intolerable Acts” through Parliament against the colonists and everything, calling them ne’er do wells and outrageous. However the colonists applauded them. And Today, well today we regard these “protesters” who used actions such as boarding ships and damaging their product as heroes. Heroes of the American Way. They are patriots. People who demanded what was right. And would not stand for it.
Sea Shepherds methods are essentially similar to the acts of great patriots of the United States of America. They are the people who will NOT sit down, and not sit at the back of the bus, and while not hurting any person will make a statement, and board just like the patriots boarded, and render illicit whale product useless just as the heroes destroyed the East India company’s tea.
One difference though, the ones we call American heroes and patriots of democracy today also carried hatchets. They were armed. Sea Shepherd accomplished everything unarmed without guns or knives. And against a foe which is carrying grenades as well.
Sea Shepherds methods are not only sound, but honor the spirit of some of the greatest patriots honored in history.
Good for them! I support them.
I’m calling Sock Puppetry and closing this thread. If there is one thing I hate is people changing their name to give the false appearance of a majority. This is common among pseudo-science proponents and other people who have nothing on their plate. Not an argument, nor a leg to stand on. It is absolutely pathetic.
For the record, the following individuals shared the same IP address and/or email login:
Mike L. Keene
Johnny Perrine
Imforthewhales
Gleninwoodthesecond