Hope over at Benefits of Seawater suggests my original debunking of Original Quinton Marine Plasma was not “logical”. First, who is ‘Hope’? She is a freelance writer who is paid by Quinton to generate an internet buzz.
Just started up two blogs for a new client on the benefits of seawater. They’re meant to promote the client’s product by spreading internet awareness as it were. If you want to check up on the blogs and see how they are doing. You can visit the Benefits of Seawater and All About Seawater Therapy. If this works out it will also be a regular gig, Yay!, which can bring in income every month.
Well at least her blogs are providing an unbiased assessment of the products. So what is my beef with Quinton’s? Below the fold is a list that I will keep updating as I think of more.
- As Hope correctly notes, my first issue is that Rene Quinton isn’t as high in stature in France, or anywhere else, as the Original Quinton would have us believe. Hope seems to think that I argued that Quinton did not publish on the ‘benefits of seawater’. I admitted in the last post that R. Quinton indeed seems to have published on the topics suggested. Rather, it is the impact of R. Quinton’s work I challenged. Specifically, how have other scientists viewed his work in the last 100 years. First, a websearch of R. Quinton produces mainly a variety of webpages related to Original Quintion (the company) and little else. As I noted before, even the Wikipedia entry was suspect, being flagged as a product endorsement, and has been subsequently removed. Second, A commenter on the last post stated “I’m French and a biologist and I never even heard of him!”. My well educated French neighbors only know of him as a French military hero but not as a biologist. Third, DSN’s whipping boy, Kevin Zelnio, reports to me that a Science Citation Index Search finds four of Quinton’s paper with none of them being cited.
- Quinton’s Filtering Process removes all the beneficial nutrients. Several studies show that that several nutrients are depleted during a plankton bloom. For example, Kudo and Matsunaga (1998, Journal of Oceanography) demonstrate that phosphate, silicate, nitrate, and cadmium either exhibited decreased concentrations or were depleted completely. Where do the nutrients go? Into the plankton. This is examplifed by the fact that elevated concentrations of these are found in deeper layers after a bloom due to the decomposition of detritial materials produced in the bloom. Filtering, at any mesh size small enough to be productive, would remove the plankton and the nutrients. Perhaps Quinton’s only harvests at the window at the beginning of the bloom?
- Original Quinton is disingenuous. This list examplifies only part of this. The company purports Quinton advanced our understanding of the origins of live. He did not. Their website suggests that several doctors support the product. A simple scroll the “healthcare practitioners” for California produces a list where a majority are not M.D.’s but rather chiropractors, acupunturists, nutritionists, and homeopaths. Hope noted that I acknowledged previously that research provides evidence that seawater is good for the skin. Actually, the papers and the Quinton site, and others not there, point to hypersaline solutions, not just seawater, as a irrigant for skin conditions. The other studies Quintons cite relate to deep-sea water, funded in part by companies promoting the drinking of seawater, and suffer from low sample sizes. As Quinton’s is collected in shallow water, these studies hardly speak to to its benenfit. Of course none of these studies deal with Quinton’s per se, the studies they provide about thier product are not published and thus peer reviewed.
- They charge you for it. I don’t mind anybody making a profit. What I mind, and Hope misses this, is that Quinton’s is overpriced. $60 for 18 vials of seawater that you can go collect for yourself for free is ridiculous. Moreover, of Quinton’s 83 Bioavailable elements, only 16 are found in concentrations that are greater than trace. My multivitamin that is less than $10 for over 6 month’s supply contains near 40 in concentration far greater. Hope notes that you need a prescription for the product and thus it is regulated by your doctor. Yet online you can purchase your own, one time only, 18 vial sample pack for $19.95 (+ S&H).
Well, according to her later blog entries, hugging dolphins can be an important element of seawater therapy (for skin disorders). Perhaps if you hug dolphins while ingesting Original Quinton’s, it makes up for the total lack of nutrients and high price. Maybe DSN could offer a package deal for dophins and seawater?
I am sorry after the last post on Cetacean behavior, DSN has a strictly no dolphin policy.
I’m the French commenter you quote and I stick by my guns.
You would think that if Quiton is supposes to be highly considered in France, they would start launching their products there.
But you can’t find their thingy anywhere in France, and a quick web search showed only a web-based shop in Switzerland.
If I had read these comments before trying Quinton, I might never had made the effort to try it. It appears none of you have read the history. For 75 years Quinton Marine Plasma was listed in the French Vidal (US equivalent of Physician’s Desk Reference). The French medical and pharmaceutical industries, out of self interest for monetary gain, created legislation to require that all injectible substances be heat treated and was deliberately aimed at stopping the use of Quinton because it cannot be subjected to heat. They also began to remove texts and research materials from libraries so it is now difficult to find references to Quinton’s research. I can see why many French citizens have never heard of him for those reasons. QMP is a threat to the medical and pharmaceutical industries for the simple reason that it works. People would not need so many drugs if they used QMP. In Quinton’s time, he was often challenged by the Pasteur camp that believed that the germ was all important rather than the “terrain” as Bernard and Quinton postulated. He had plenty of nay-sayers and other scientists who tried to make their own copies of what he was doing and had a vested interest to see him fail or discredit his work because they wanted to be top dog in the scientific world.
If the author of this site feels there is no possibility that this stuff works, I would encourage them to analyze it in a lab to prove that it does not contain the minerals that it claims it has. This would be a better way to see whether it is real or not. Don’t base judgement of it on what your current knowledge is about seawater or plankton blooms without lab results that prove that it is not what it says it is. You are not an expert about marine plasma and I really doubt you have given it a significant trial to see how it feels to use it. The proof is in the pudding. Quinton was concerned about the water surrounding plankton which contained the secrections from zoo plankton. The secrections contain pre-digested minerals which is what QMP is. While most of the historical writings and research are in French, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. As far as his research being recognized outside of France, there was a short article published in a Los Angeles paper, soon after Quinton had completed his dog experiments, about his discovery. I found it amongst historical documents on the internet, you can see the front page of the newspaper and also the article. There is a sizable bibliography on the oceanplasma.org site that you can refer to. Some of it is in English and if it is out of print you could probably obtain used copies through used book sites. There were a variety of doctors and researchers who did studies using QMP. Really, all you can say is that you have not done any research yourself or made any significant efforts to look for the work that has been done. Quinton and the doctors associated with him were not the only ones who did research on seawater; here is one example:
“Difference between Deep Seawater and Surface SEawater in the Preventive Effect of Atherosclerosis” The Japanese published this study on the effects of deep seawater for treatment of atherosclerosis proving that it was significantly benefical. They used desalinated seawater, not just cold filtered as in QMP, and it worked. In their paper, the Japanese also acknowleged the use of seawater historically as a medical treatment for atopic dermatitis.
Research papers have also been published about seawater’s electrolytic qualities and are also available to read.
So if you are going to discredit QMP, do so on the basis of real science as in doing the lab work and using it experimentally to see if there are results or not. Otherwise you are simply giving an uninformed opinion and a seeming egoistic one at that.
I am a skeptic too, but I have an open mind. QMP works. Why not give it a chance. Use it for 3 months and then judge. You can get it from a site on the internet selling 6 boxes for 58.50 each and free shipping. I am sure you will find it if you look.I am not advertizing for anyone. If you are a health practitioner you can get it for much less from the company. The reason for the high cost is because the shipments have to be hand inspected since they cannot be irradiated due to being an organic product and it is shipped internationally afterall. Personally, I am just grateful that after all this time, it is still being produced the same way and is available here. There are several papers written by Roy Dittman D.O. about the history and use of marine plasma. It gives a good basis for understanding the beginnings and continued use of QMP.
One further note about Quinton Marine Plasma. There are 24 ampoules to a box, not 18 as one other writer posted. There are two types of QMP: isotonic (a dilution resembling human blood plasma) and hypertonic which is undiluted seawater. You cannot just go and get ocean water yourself. That is a stupid idea. For one thing, you would have to filter it yourself and another is that by the time you got it home it would already be degraded and rendered useless. At best, self gotten seawater would be messy to process and you would not have the necessary equipment to filter it or the lab tests available to prove it safe to consume. The glass ampoules that contain QMP are completely sealed to prevent contamination and keep it from degrading. You have to appreciate what the company does to produce QMP. It really is not a simple process. From the special containers that the company transports it in to the factory, to the vigorous testing they use to ensure purity and quality of every batch, the price is more than earned.
I looked up originalquinton.com to see their list of practitioners in California and I found no less than 13 MDs using QMP in their practices. Three of them were dentists. There are several other MDs in other states as well. QMP has only been offered in the US for a couple of years. It is relatively new here and so has not made many inroads yet. My advice: try it. If, after, you think it doesn’t work, OK, you lost some money. But if you find out it does work, you have everything to gain by it. I have heard that QMP has been sold in pharmacies in France not so much on the net, but I cannot be sure of that. There are websites in the UK, Germany, Italy, Australia and recently Switzerland selling QMP.
Since QMP is organic and pre-digested it is more easily assimilated than inorganic minerals in tablet form. OK your vitamen/mineral supplement costs 10 dollars at Walmart–good for your pocket book, but if you can’t absorb it what good is it to your body? and it might actually harm you that way too.
Quinton’s filtering process does not filter out all nutrients. There were other scientists analyzing marine plasma that proved the presence of all of the elements. There is too much evidence to show this to be true and you can’t just say that without evidence to the contrary. The plankton bloom where Quinton took his water was very unique for its particular balance of minerals. Not all sea water is equal and neither are plankton blooms. Quinton spent years taking water samples before deciding which place in the ocean was best. If you are going to make comments about this, please research this topic more thoroughly. Also “trace” minerals are essential to human health and that is proven true not just by Quinton. If those trace minerals were more than “trace”, they would be toxic for human consumption–more is not better. Dr. M: If the nutrients in a plankton bloom go into the phyto plankton and are in turn eaten by the zoo plankton which then digest the nutrients, it stands to reason that the secrections they give off contain the pre-digested minerals that Quinton saw as so valuable.
All of you are so cynical, you almost deserve the missed opportunity to experience something really brilliant because of your negativity. You are drowning yourselves so well you can’t see the life preserver in front of you.
Dr. R, I have to say that your assessment of Rene Quinton is just sad. First you base your assessment by his current stature in France?!? LOL!!! As though the most brilliant theories irrespective of the vested interests, just shine through and are accepted by all!??? What are you smoking? If you actually do research on Rene Quinton, you should note the veritable who’s who in France that was at his funeral (i.e. President and Prime Minister of France, thousands of dignitaries, thousands of former patients who were saved by his plasma – i.e. seawater).
Second you understand so little about health and how the body works that and a bit to inept to understand that for most nutrients we are talking about TRACE AMOUNTS THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE SEAWATER! (Duh!). Maybe you should look up the work of Dr. Maynard Murray and his work on sea solids in agriculture and farm animals. You might learn a little something. Conceptually, they are exactly the same. One uses sea solids for agriculture by ensuring the plants have all the nutrients its needs for healthy cellular growth and Dr Quinton does the same with seawater. And if you use your brain a bit, you might realise that water functions as a solvent which means that the nutrients are already there in the water even if it’s in trace amounts.
Finally as to why there aren’t more of his products on the market? You must be truly clueless as to how the world works. As though pharmaceutical companies don’t work hand in hand with politicians to exclude competition from the market. Like there are no natural, homeopathic, electromagnetic, light therapy cures for that have been known for at least 50-100 years for most of these illnesses!!! Like the FDA and the USDA doesn’t focusing on preventing people from knowing about all different sorts of cures for diseases for which they are raking in billions??? Man you are sad!!!
The Benefits of Seawater blog no longer exists.