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	<title>Comments on: DSN&#8217;s 7 Simple Rules for Marine Conservation Expedition Safety</title>
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	<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/</link>
	<description>All the news on the Earth's largest environment.</description>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9698</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9698</guid>
		<description>karma? karma!

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/sea-shepherd-lose-ady-gil-after-collision-with-whaler/story-e6frfku0-1225817238562</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>karma? karma!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/sea-shepherd-lose-ady-gil-after-collision-with-whaler/story-e6frfku0-1225817238562" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/sea-shepherd-lose-ady-gil-after-collision-with-whaler/story-e6frfku0-1225817238562</a></p>
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		<title>By: SouthernFriedScientist</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9575</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernFriedScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9575</guid>
		<description>my chair doesn&#039;t have any arms...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my chair doesn&#8217;t have any arms&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. M</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9317</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9317</guid>
		<description>@Red Lead

I think most of those criticizing Sea Shepherd here have substantial amount of time at sea.  Also most of us are active in conservation efforts, research, and outreach.  I think none of us here could be considered &quot;sitting in our arm chairs&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Red Lead</p>
<p>I think most of those criticizing Sea Shepherd here have substantial amount of time at sea.  Also most of us are active in conservation efforts, research, and outreach.  I think none of us here could be considered &#8220;sitting in our arm chairs&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Lead</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9310</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Lead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9310</guid>
		<description>Sea Shepherd has more sea time than all of you. Any of your readers who have as much salt as Paul, sure the hell ain&#039;t reading you website. Why would they? Even the new sea shepherd wog volunteers come back with more sea time than most of you sitting there in your arm chairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sea Shepherd has more sea time than all of you. Any of your readers who have as much salt as Paul, sure the hell ain&#8217;t reading you website. Why would they? Even the new sea shepherd wog volunteers come back with more sea time than most of you sitting there in your arm chairs.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ghost of Ed Abbey</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9157</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ghost of Ed Abbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9157</guid>
		<description>The Japanese whale killers are lucky, in Africa they shoot poachers on site  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Japanese whale killers are lucky, in Africa they shoot poachers on site  <img src='http://deepseanews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: P. Jørgensen</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9119</link>
		<dc:creator>P. Jørgensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9119</guid>
		<description>Whether their methods actually work or whether they endanger other people&#039;s lives are irrelevant to Watson and his organization because their enterprise is a self-perpetuating narcissistic pose, not a pragmatic undertaking with an end goal in mind. The purpose of groups like his is to exploit the cheap appeal of self-righteous indignation to stir up controversy and drive more donations their way. Their cheesy and utterly useless new toy, the Ady Gil, fits precisely that attention-seeking purpose and no other. It&#039;s a gimmick.

The worst thing that could happen to Watson is for whaling to suddenly end.

As his luck would have it, that is not likely to happen anytime soon, because as Kevin Zelnio points out people like SS has done more, not less, to entrench opinion in whaling countries.

I&#039;ll posit my theory (tape down the caps lock key and commence flaming): Arguments against whaling fail because they overwhelmingly tend to take the form of a moral dictum, which comes across as patronizing at best and insulting at worst when levelled against people -- e.g., the Japanese, Norwegians, Icelanders, or for that matter native Greenlanders -- for whom whaling is utilitarian. 

Let me put that another way. You (not you but a generic anti-whaling you) are talking to Norwegians or Japanese from the point of view, which seems self-evident to you, that killing whales and seals is morally wrong. Therefore, they are behaving immorally and would stop if you could only succeed in making them understand that. What they&#039;re hearing you make, on the other hand, is an emotional argument to the effect that some mammals are morally distinct from other mammals, e.g. cattle, because they live in the ocean and don&#039;t have legs, therefore eating them is wrong. Oh, and also they sing. Pass the ham, please. Any hope of mutual understanding ends right there.

The only way to have a productive discussion with people in other countries who consider marine mammals a resource -- and I&#039;ll stand up and say I&#039;m one of those people -- is to present resource conservation arguments and discuss whaling in those terms. That&#039;s not glamorous, it doesn&#039;t feel like &quot;action,&quot; and it doesn&#039;t fire up the righteous indignation that brings in the bucks to buy boats. It doesn&#039;t come with the instant gratification of feeling like you&#039;re fighting a &quot;war&quot; on the &quot;good&quot; side. It certainly doesn&#039;t get you your own TV show. What it does do is get both sides back out of the trenches to actually achieve something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether their methods actually work or whether they endanger other people&#8217;s lives are irrelevant to Watson and his organization because their enterprise is a self-perpetuating narcissistic pose, not a pragmatic undertaking with an end goal in mind. The purpose of groups like his is to exploit the cheap appeal of self-righteous indignation to stir up controversy and drive more donations their way. Their cheesy and utterly useless new toy, the Ady Gil, fits precisely that attention-seeking purpose and no other. It&#8217;s a gimmick.</p>
<p>The worst thing that could happen to Watson is for whaling to suddenly end.</p>
<p>As his luck would have it, that is not likely to happen anytime soon, because as Kevin Zelnio points out people like SS has done more, not less, to entrench opinion in whaling countries.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll posit my theory (tape down the caps lock key and commence flaming): Arguments against whaling fail because they overwhelmingly tend to take the form of a moral dictum, which comes across as patronizing at best and insulting at worst when levelled against people &#8212; e.g., the Japanese, Norwegians, Icelanders, or for that matter native Greenlanders &#8212; for whom whaling is utilitarian. </p>
<p>Let me put that another way. You (not you but a generic anti-whaling you) are talking to Norwegians or Japanese from the point of view, which seems self-evident to you, that killing whales and seals is morally wrong. Therefore, they are behaving immorally and would stop if you could only succeed in making them understand that. What they&#8217;re hearing you make, on the other hand, is an emotional argument to the effect that some mammals are morally distinct from other mammals, e.g. cattle, because they live in the ocean and don&#8217;t have legs, therefore eating them is wrong. Oh, and also they sing. Pass the ham, please. Any hope of mutual understanding ends right there.</p>
<p>The only way to have a productive discussion with people in other countries who consider marine mammals a resource &#8212; and I&#8217;ll stand up and say I&#8217;m one of those people &#8212; is to present resource conservation arguments and discuss whaling in those terms. That&#8217;s not glamorous, it doesn&#8217;t feel like &#8220;action,&#8221; and it doesn&#8217;t fire up the righteous indignation that brings in the bucks to buy boats. It doesn&#8217;t come with the instant gratification of feeling like you&#8217;re fighting a &#8220;war&#8221; on the &#8220;good&#8221; side. It certainly doesn&#8217;t get you your own TV show. What it does do is get both sides back out of the trenches to actually achieve something.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Zelnio</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9117</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Zelnio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9117</guid>
		<description>The activities of SS have not resulted in political action nor public pressure after 31 years of work. While Whale Wars might result in more awareness in the American public, their actions have more or less nationalized the issue of whaling in Japan creating the opposite reaction. Instead of getting the Japanese public and government to side with them against whaling, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/whale-watch/japans-pm-speaks-out-on-whaling/2008/01/24/1201157559842.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Japan&#039;s prime minister was reported&lt;/a&gt; on:
&lt;blockquote&gt; &quot;He admitted in the Diet that there were cultural differences over whaling, and in the way that Japan hunted, and conducted its science.

But he said it was unforgivable to illegally interfere with whaling, referring to the stand-off over the detention of two Sea Shepherd activists who boarded a Japanese catcher vessel last week.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It is not always good to do something if that something is illegal, irresponsibly dangers lives, irresponsibly uses donor&#039;s money, ignores national and international maritime laws, and has not over an extended trial period resulted in accomplishing any stated goals. When something doesn&#039;t work repeatedly, do you keep doing the same thing over and over again for 30 years or do you find another innovative way to solve a problem? The record is skipping and no one is moving the needle at Sea Shepherd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The activities of SS have not resulted in political action nor public pressure after 31 years of work. While Whale Wars might result in more awareness in the American public, their actions have more or less nationalized the issue of whaling in Japan creating the opposite reaction. Instead of getting the Japanese public and government to side with them against whaling, as <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/whale-watch/japans-pm-speaks-out-on-whaling/2008/01/24/1201157559842.html" rel="nofollow">Japan&#8217;s prime minister was reported</a> on:</p>
<blockquote><p> &#8220;He admitted in the Diet that there were cultural differences over whaling, and in the way that Japan hunted, and conducted its science.</p>
<p>But he said it was unforgivable to illegally interfere with whaling, referring to the stand-off over the detention of two Sea Shepherd activists who boarded a Japanese catcher vessel last week.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>It is not always good to do something if that something is illegal, irresponsibly dangers lives, irresponsibly uses donor&#8217;s money, ignores national and international maritime laws, and has not over an extended trial period resulted in accomplishing any stated goals. When something doesn&#8217;t work repeatedly, do you keep doing the same thing over and over again for 30 years or do you find another innovative way to solve a problem? The record is skipping and no one is moving the needle at Sea Shepherd.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffz</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9114</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9114</guid>
		<description>Does there only have to be one method?  I believe change happens from awareness ( generated by spectacular events such as the SS), political action, and public pressure . Need all 3 really and everyone can play a part.  I am a desk jockie and write letters and foster awareness of issues with friends and such.  It is nothing big but it is something, everyone can do what they do best as long as they do SOMETHING!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does there only have to be one method?  I believe change happens from awareness ( generated by spectacular events such as the SS), political action, and public pressure . Need all 3 really and everyone can play a part.  I am a desk jockie and write letters and foster awareness of issues with friends and such.  It is nothing big but it is something, everyone can do what they do best as long as they do SOMETHING!</p>
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		<title>By: TGIF: Ship Launch FAIL Edition &#124; Deep Sea News</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9109</link>
		<dc:creator>TGIF: Ship Launch FAIL Edition &#124; Deep Sea News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9109</guid>
		<description>[...] to be fair to Sea Shepherd, ship launch FAIL&#8217;s can happen to anyone. Even megatonne cargo [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be fair to Sea Shepherd, ship launch FAIL&#8217;s can happen to anyone. Even megatonne cargo [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy McVie</title>
		<link>http://deepseanews.com/2009/11/dsns-7-simple-rules-for-marine-conservation-expedition-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-9100</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy McVie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepseanews.com/?p=6334#comment-9100</guid>
		<description>When the Jap economy implodes under a tidal wave of debt they wont be able to afford to kill whales. But in the mean time, only hard direct action will have any effect. The Sea Shepard people should try to raise funds for a second hand icebreaker, then use that to ram and sink the Jap whaling boats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Jap economy implodes under a tidal wave of debt they wont be able to afford to kill whales. But in the mean time, only hard direct action will have any effect. The Sea Shepard people should try to raise funds for a second hand icebreaker, then use that to ram and sink the Jap whaling boats.</p>
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